A Load of Hot Air!

Take a balloon ride and see Ukraine from a different perspective

Having made a household name for himself as far back as the early 90s with New Wave, he has since been one of only a handful of Ukrainian artists who often sees his exhibitions on the other side of the border. One of his latest international displays included the 2009 Venice Biennale, where he presented his Steppes of Dreamers. And returning from India recently after keeping a rather low profile, his newest exhibition, Der’mo I Zoloto, has come out with a bang. Love him or hate him, he’s one of the most wanted contemporary artists Ukraine has ever produced, and having hooked up in his workshop downtown, What’s On is getting a little arty with Ilya Chichkan.

Having recently read one of your interviews in a local newspaper, you were cited as saying that you create art predominantly for money…

Really? That’s why I never read my interviews! Journalists often write a different story from that which you tell them… Interesting… Anyway, if I were to do an art project, such as the last one for example, I’d do it in a much more profitable manner. What it does feature, however, apart from the canned excrement, is a number of beggars, and really, who’s interested in beggars? Who would want to see that kind of painting hung in a gallery? But I think the unfortunate times of the hungry artist have come and gone: life changes, and with it the image of the artist is also changing.

As I understand, the idea for this exhibition is a continuation of Piero Manzoni’s Shit and Gold exhibition which was held way back in May of 1961. Putting together 90 cans each of which held 300g of faeces, he was quite obstinate about what it all represented saying, ‘Those rich pigs can’t help but like shit.’ As the exhibition was completely sold out, the artist proved this statement to be true. What’s the premise behind your use of it?

An art magazine approached me to take part in a project whereby each participant was to create something inspired by some renowned artist that would later be sold at auction. I agreed, but forgot about the project until they contacted me a second time, at which point I jumped on the opportunity to follow Manzoni’s provocative images. Short on time, I decided to replicate his idea using 500g instead of Manzoni’s 300: Ukrainians, as a rule, are quite generous. And our lives are all about s**t and gold...

Manzoni, however, made a fortune out of his pieces of ‘excrement’, some being sold at prices around 120,00Euros. How are things with Ukrainian visitors? Do they get the message?

Like I said, our lives are completely about s**t and gold and I’ll give you a relevant example. India is an incredible place when it comes to contrasts: they wear gold jewellery and clothes made of gold thread, but live in the most squalid, dilapidated environments. They also have no problem going to the bathroom under a tree, while wearing such fine garments. Upon planning that trip, I became acquainted with a couple of businessmen who told me they would buy whatever I created from my experience there; something we call in the art world ‘first night rule’. So how is it? It’s already sold out. Or, at least, everything but the parrots. So if you want, you can buy them (smiles).

With that in mind, do you yourself acknowledge that art is entering an era where the artist manages and markets himself? 

Oh, no! I try to stay aware from such ‘artists’.  An artist in its most humble form is entirely emotional and has little to do with pragmatism. How could you call an artist an artist otherwise? However, galleries everywhere else in the world promote those people they exhibit, unfortunately, we’re not there yet. Perhpas in some ten years we might get the idea...

Because you’re quite a regular at local VIP parties, you often get a lot of press both on TV and in the paper. It seems, however, you don’t really mind it...

On average, I spend about five or so hours on my feet creating, so at the end of the day, I’m ready to relax and go get a drink somewhere. I quite enjoy the Champagne Cafe, or my friends and I will quite often get together at my place, and yes, you’ll find me at parties too. I have been known to be shown on TV lying drunk after various parties, and while it’s not a great image for me, I am able to laugh at myself whenever someone does take my photo. 

You could be called attention-seeking though, isn’t that right?

Well, I will agree that television has a pretty good scam going, ‘cause if you’ve been featured once, then everyone wants an interview or some sort of comment. We have plenty Ukrainian artists that have a lot going for them, Maksim Mamsikov is a good example. But because he is pretty straight-laced, no one puts him on the air. 

Last year you represented Ukraine at the 53rd Venice Biennale, where, along with Japanese fashion designer Mihara Yasuhiro, the Ukrainian pavilion Steppes of Dreamers was under your charge. Also, Volodymyr Klichko was curator: what was his contribution?

That is a long story! I like mutations in art because they reflect the mutations that exist in everyday life, which comes back to the idea that art touches pretty much everything. That said, the art world is controlled by a very elite few who think that they can and should dictate the trends artists should take; which is why I saw Klichko as an absolutely necessary curator. Can you imagine anyone coming up to him and talking s**t about what we’d done?! (laughs)

Okay, but what was Klitchko’s artistic contribution to the Ukrainian project?

In Venice, the billboard with Klichko advertising our pavilion was the biggest of them all. Absolutely everyone was curious to see what kind of work he curated. It was a very considerable position to be in and to be honest, I don’t understand why people haven’t thought of this before. I think it could be very conceptual. 

I heard Naomi Campbell bought a pair of shoes with the express purpose of attending your exhibit. Apparently they were incrusted with sea shells so that they would look perfectly natural against the sandy floor of the Ukrainian pavilion in Palazzo Papadopoli.

Yes, it’s true, but who cares? She was there with her boyfriend Russian oligarch Doronin as well as Marc Jacobs with his boyfriend. They, along with most of the people who showed up, had positive feedback. But it’s no different to when you get married, for example, and people you don’t even know very well tell you how happy they are for you. Apparently Ilya Kabakov (a famous Russian artist) told Viktor Pinchuk that the Ukrainian pavilion didn’t get the first prize that year because Bruce Nauman took it. But I’ve learned a lot from his stuff and admire him greatly, so how could I take first prize? (smiles)

On the topic of Pinchuk, you were approached to take part in the Venice Biennale which he sponsored. And then just half a year after that, your date Masha Shubina won the Pinchuk prize for best new young artist. Care to comment on the corruption that ‘allegedly’ occurs in the art world?

Of course I helped Masha. I’ve been in the business longer and so advised her about various things. But the connections she made she did herself. People gossip a lot about the successful careers of my kids David and Sasha as well, but I can hardly imagine a scam big enough to be able to bribe the entire international jury to help all those I love. 

Tell me, are there any thought-through schemes to get that oh-so coveted popularity and recognition that exists in show-business? 

There’s always topicality in art. Of course it’s much easier to get a grant from the US if you’re a gay black man living in Uganda and suffering from AIDS, or if, for instance, you’re an artist from Yugoslavia depicting the catacombs of Sarajevo. But this scheme only works for a certain period of time and the level of your success is dependent upon your talent. The art world is like MTV: we have plenty of up-and-coming talented performers, but only good groups like Brainstorm (a band from Latvia who won at Eurovision in 2000), for example, have managed to make it. So even if you are a gay black man living in Uganda and suffering from AIDS, success will find you. But if you’re not that talented, you’re not going to get into the Guggenheim.

 

Who would you consider iconic in the Ukrainian art world? 

Taras Shevchenko. I’m very fond of him. He’s a trendsetter. He made moustaches popular all over the world, and he’s set trends for Iron Maiden, Uriah Heep and the whole heavy rock world. 

What emotions do you like to evoke when you have visitors come to your exhibitions?

I don’t have a certain image in my head, but I do want for him or her to stop for a moment and think. If they walk through the PAC, and they stop in my room for a couple of minutes – that’s great. An artist is like an exhibitionist; the only difference is that we show our emotions in public. 

Ksenia Karpenko